Episode 117
Do You Need Formal Education to Be a Writer?
In this episode of the Writing Momentum Podcast, hosts Christopher and Gena Maselli explore the common question of whether a formal degree is necessary to become a successful writer. They discuss their personal experiences with formal education in writing, highlighting the pros and cons of pursuing a writing degree versus self-education through resources like writers' conferences and continual learning. They emphasize the importance of continuous education in writing, publishing, and marketing, regardless of one's educational background. The episode provides insight into the writing industry standards, the publishing process, and the critical role of marketing in a writer's career. Through their discussion, they reassure listeners that while formal education can be beneficial, it is not a prerequisite for success in writing, encouraging writers to focus on continuous learning and improvement.
- 00:00 Introduction to the Writing Momentum Podcast
- 00:15 The Big Question: Do You Need a Degree to Write?
- 01:55 Personal Experiences and Insights on Formal Education
- 04:37 The Continuous Journey of Learning in Writing
- 07:22 Understanding Publishing, Marketing, and Industry Standards
- 13:13 The Importance of Continuous Self-Education
- 16:10 Conclusion: Your Path to Writing Success
LINKS:
- Liz Wilcox's Email Marketing Membership at http://wmdeal.com/liz
- Get your FREE Move the Needle goal-setting for authors ebook at https://www.writingmomentum.com
- Write with us! Join Chris, Gena, and Rene each Wednesday at noon Central and let's get our writing DONE! https://www.writingmoments.com
Transcript
Do you need a formal degree to be a writer?
Speaker:We can help with that.
Speaker:Hello and welcome to the Writing Momentum Podcast.
Speaker:I'm Christopher Maselli.
Speaker:I'm here with
Speaker:Gena Maselli, his wife.
Speaker:Good to talk to you today.
Speaker:We are so excited because we're going to talk about a question
Speaker:that people often ask and that is, do I need a formal degree?
Speaker:Do I need a formal education to become a successful writer today?
Speaker:I don't, we hear that question.
Speaker:But more than that, I think that's a question that people keep in
Speaker:their minds that's left unspoken.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:That they think,
Speaker:Oh, yeah.
Speaker:I'm not good enough, so I must need to have an education in
Speaker:order to make this thing happen.
Speaker:I'm not, I can't really be a writer because I don't have a degree
Speaker:in journalism, creative writing, English literature, British
Speaker:literature, any kind of literature.
Speaker:Journalism.
Speaker:I can't do it until I have those things in line.
Speaker:It's almost a form of procrastination, right?
Speaker:To think, oh, I can't do this until I finish that.
Speaker:I, yeah, I think there's that.
Speaker:I think there's also just that self doubt of somehow if I have that,
Speaker:then I'll have that seal of approval that I'm good enough to be here.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So do you need to have a degree to be a writer?
Speaker:Not necessarily.
Speaker:Though, we are going to tell you, we are big proponents of education.
Speaker:We love education.
Speaker:We believe in continual education and we, if you've listened to this
Speaker:podcast for any amount of time, you know that we are big on educating
Speaker:yourself as a writer to keep your head in the writing game and to learn more.
Speaker:That's true.
Speaker:We are not going to tell you.
Speaker:don't get that degree if that's something that you want to do.
Speaker:But we are going to tell you that you do not have to have a degree.
Speaker:And in fact, I do not have a degree in writing, but Chris does.
Speaker:You have a master's degree in writing.
Speaker:So talk about that process.
Speaker:Cause we were married.
Speaker:And we were really smart about it because we decided for Chris to get a
Speaker:master's degree when we had two infants.
Speaker:Yes we decided for me to go ahead and get my master's degree about the time that we
Speaker:had two children in our lives, which is probably not the best timing in the world.
Speaker:Oh my goodness.
Speaker:He did a two year degree.
Speaker:In Vermont.
Speaker:So it was across the country.
Speaker:I had to fly there.
Speaker:It was a limited residency.
Speaker:So we had to fly there twice a year for a week at a time.
Speaker:So just to give you an idea, our first child was born about two months after
Speaker:you went to your initial residency.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:And our second child was five months old when he,
Speaker:Graduated.
Speaker:Graduated.
Speaker:And our kids are only two years apart.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So, it was, to say it was a wild time, and I don't even know what we were thinking.
Speaker:I don't know how we got it all done, I had a full time job also at that point,
Speaker:and so I don't know how I got the full time job, plus we were bringing up
Speaker:two children, plus I got this degree across the country, it was very intense.
Speaker:And so, here's the thing.
Speaker:I really liked getting the degree.
Speaker:I met some wonderful people, and it's like this intensive time of getting
Speaker:together and learning about writing.
Speaker:And let me tell you, I was writing all the time.
Speaker:For my full time job, I was a writer, and then also, I was
Speaker:doing creative writing then.
Speaker:I mean, I was doing some creative writing in my full time job also, but
Speaker:I was doing creative writing for this program, in the evenings, so I would
Speaker:spend all kinds of time writing and reading because I had to read literally
Speaker:hundreds of books in that program.
Speaker:So between the two I was immersed in writing 24 7 and it really
Speaker:though did wear on us a lot.
Speaker:It was difficult and when I got out of the program it was hard to even write
Speaker:because it was such an intense time.
Speaker:It was hard for me to get back into writing.
Speaker:All of that said, it was a good experience and I could now teach on a collegiate
Speaker:level because I have this degree.
Speaker:But that said, I discovered in the program there's a lot that they
Speaker:didn't teach about writing and we're going to talk about that in a bit.
Speaker:But also, here's the biggest thing, I discovered that Just
Speaker:because I had that degree, that didn't stop my learning process.
Speaker:I had to keep learning.
Speaker:So, my advice to you might be this.
Speaker:If you want to go ahead and get a degree, that's fine.
Speaker:You're going to learn a lot.
Speaker:You'll probably love it.
Speaker:But, let's say your degree costs 30, 000, 40, 000.
Speaker:Just because you spend that and go do that doesn't mean it's going to end.
Speaker:You're gonna have to keep learning as the years go.
Speaker:That's part of being a writer.
Speaker:So, for a lot of people, you might be better off just saying, you know,
Speaker:I'm not gonna spend a huge chunk of money and time in one place, right?
Speaker:Instead, I'm going to, every year, attend writers conferences,
Speaker:get continual education, and just keep this going over time.
Speaker:And you'll be in a very good place if you do that.
Speaker:The key is to keep learning.
Speaker:Yeah, I think that's the thing.
Speaker:You came out of that program.
Speaker:Having been exposed to some fabulous writers.
Speaker:Oh, it was wonderful.
Speaker:Your instructors were top notch.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Your people, your peers, your classmates were really good.
Speaker:And so I remember you came during that season, you would be just immersed
Speaker:in writing and you had really been exposed to just some beautiful writing.
Speaker:I will say that when those programs tell you to expect to, to work for 25
Speaker:hours a week, usually a lot of times they say this is going to be, you
Speaker:need to be able to devote 25 to 30 hours a week or something like that.
Speaker:They're very, it's a real thing.
Speaker:Don't look at the program and think, well I can do it in 10.
Speaker:No.
Speaker:It was a significant amount of time and effort that you went into.
Speaker:And it's not just a weekend thing.
Speaker:It's in probably multiple days of the week, if not every day
Speaker:of the week kind of thing.
Speaker:Because like I said, you also have a very heavy reading routine too.
Speaker:And so you're going to be reading if you're not writing.
Speaker:So your life really becomes consumed with it.
Speaker:And so If that's an avenue you want to go down, that's fine.
Speaker:But our question today is, do you need formal education like that?
Speaker:Do you need a degree to your name to become a writer?
Speaker:And I would say, no, you don't.
Speaker:What you need is continued education.
Speaker:You just need to make sure you're continually learning.
Speaker:Now, does it hurt to have that?
Speaker:Of course not.
Speaker:Does it help?
Speaker:In some cases, especially if you want to teach, but what you've got to focus on
Speaker:more than anything else is when you're a writer, you've got to continue learning.
Speaker:And why, Gena, what kind of things do you need to learn about as a writer?
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:So here we go.
Speaker:Some of the things that if you're not going to, and really, I do want to point
Speaker:this out, that a lot of times in these formal education, and it's probably
Speaker:changing as the market is changing, they're going to teach you about writing.
Speaker:They're not necessarily going to be teaching you about publishing.
Speaker:or about marketing your books or marketing your writing.
Speaker:That's something that you are still going to have to learn even
Speaker:if you get this formal degree.
Speaker:So, while the formal degree is great, I'm sure that you will
Speaker:learn and grow as a writer.
Speaker:There's still going to be things that you need to learn.
Speaker:So let's talk about the things that you need to continue learning,
Speaker:whether you have a degree or not.
Speaker:Yeah, because when you're in a process like that, you're so focused on the
Speaker:craft of writing, and that's really what the curriculum is usually built around.
Speaker:And so you'll have, we still encounter people today who are very good writers,
Speaker:who have learned a lot about writing, but they just don't know anything about
Speaker:the publishing or the marketing process.
Speaker:And that is a big part of what your continued education is
Speaker:going to cover, that you're just going to have to do yourself.
Speaker:And so, you're going to learn about industry standards, right?
Speaker:What is the industry looking for right now?
Speaker:You will find out about that more than anything by going to writers conferences
Speaker:and by reading industry news, right?
Speaker:Like by Publishers Weekly, right?
Speaker:Writers Digest, those kind of places have industry news that you're going
Speaker:to just find out what's going on, what are the standards right now, what are
Speaker:people looking for, what's happening.
Speaker:That happens On a continued basis, not so much in a program.
Speaker:And that's one thing you have to realize is that there are fashions that go
Speaker:through, there are trends that go through publishing, just like with anything else.
Speaker:And so you need to be continuing to learn about these trends.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:You know, a few years ago there was a big.
Speaker:It's probably been like 10 years ago or better, but vampires were really big.
Speaker:That was for the young adult market.
Speaker:That was what people were really interested in.
Speaker:There was a lot about this paranormal.
Speaker:Well, that may not be as much the case.
Speaker:It might be something else, kind of a dystopian, something
Speaker:has become maybe more popular.
Speaker:That doesn't mean that you need to, you know, alter what you're passionate
Speaker:about and what you feel like you should be writing, but that just means you
Speaker:need to understand what the market is looking for and what the trends are
Speaker:because you may have some barriers then that you need to overcome and that's
Speaker:just part of learning about the market.
Speaker:That's what we're talking about that regardless of whether you
Speaker:have a degree, you need to continue to be educating yourself and on
Speaker:the different industry standards.
Speaker:Also, another example of an industry standard would be something
Speaker:like the fact that children's picture books are only 32 pages.
Speaker:We've come across people before who say, well, I want to write a children's
Speaker:book, but they don't understand that a children's picture book is only 32 pages.
Speaker:That's the industry standard.
Speaker:So you need to work within that.
Speaker:They don't understand that a fiction novel is usually between 70 and 100, 000.
Speaker:100 would probably be on the outside.
Speaker:They don't understand that.
Speaker:They don't understand that memoirs, super long memoirs work when you are
Speaker:an ex president of the United States.
Speaker:They do not necessarily work when you're just someone who had something
Speaker:interesting happening in your life.
Speaker:And so then you need to cut it down maybe a little bit to make it more palatable
Speaker:for the reader in today's market.
Speaker:So those are just some examples of industry standards
Speaker:that we're talking about.
Speaker:And there's also publishing standards, right?
Speaker:So there's all kinds of things that you can learn today about publishing,
Speaker:knowing whether you're going to publish traditionally or through a
Speaker:a hybrid
Speaker:like a hybrid publisher or through self publishing, independent publishing.
Speaker:That's the kind of thing you have to school yourself on a little bit,
Speaker:and as you do that, you will gain so much knowledge and just kind of know
Speaker:the direction you need to go for your book based on what you're writing,
Speaker:the genre you're writing in, what you're comfortable doing yourself.
Speaker:We have a training called the, I think it's the ABCs of
Speaker:publishing, something like that.
Speaker:But anyway, we go through all three of those kinds of training, or those kinds
Speaker:of publishing rather, and talk about what all the different factors are with
Speaker:traditional publishing, with hybrid publishing, with independent publishing,
Speaker:so that you can make a decision yourself.
Speaker:You'll find that at writingmomentum.
Speaker:com.
Speaker:And you'll find what kind of publishing works for me and just knowing those
Speaker:things, just getting that knowledge, boy, that'll free up your options
Speaker:and just help you know whether you're making a good decision or not.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:We can also talk about we were talking about also standards within just
Speaker:going back to the writing side of it.
Speaker:Understanding what needs to be within each genre.
Speaker:The points, the types of characters, the things like that, the plot
Speaker:points within those genres.
Speaker:That's something that you want to learn that is kind of a continuing
Speaker:thing that you need to do.
Speaker:Especially if you're wanting to go into other genres as well.
Speaker:That is also, it's a continuous, continuing training because
Speaker:while you might learn that kind of thing in a degreed program.
Speaker:It still has nuances that change over the years, right?
Speaker:Because our world is constantly changing.
Speaker:As attention spans change, as interests change, the way you plot, the way you
Speaker:work your book might change a little bit.
Speaker:And it's just good to be aware of it.
Speaker:It doesn't mean you have to alter what you're working on right now.
Speaker:But it does mean if you're aware of it, then you can address
Speaker:it if the situation comes up.
Speaker:Right, right.
Speaker:Now, if you aren't going into a degree program you still need to, you
Speaker:especially need to take responsibility for just furthering your education.
Speaker:Even simple things like grammar and punctuation and sentence structure.
Speaker:Those sound simple and you think, well, I learned that
Speaker:back in, you know, fifth grade.
Speaker:I don't necessarily need to do that.
Speaker:I'm telling you, please brush up on those things.
Speaker:There's nothing that will turn your writers off or your readers
Speaker:off quicker than a book that is, it has some inconsistencies
Speaker:with those kinds of things.
Speaker:And let me tell you, there's nothing like getting something that you've worked on
Speaker:back from someone and you will have those readers who will pull out the red pen and
Speaker:they will start editing your book or your work for you and send it back to you.
Speaker:I've seen that before.
Speaker:And you kind of go, Oh my gosh, that was a big miss.
Speaker:Or they catch, I've also heard of people who will say, I tried to read that book,
Speaker:but there were so many errors in it.
Speaker:I couldn't read it.
Speaker:I put it down and I didn't pick it up.
Speaker:So, those kinds of things that if you need to be continually teaching
Speaker:yourself about those things.
Speaker:Probably one of the most important areas that you need
Speaker:to constantly train yourself in.
Speaker:And this is something that almost is never taught on a formal education level.
Speaker:And that is the marketing of your book.
Speaker:As an author today, you are also a marketer.
Speaker:You need to understand what the market is looking for, and how you can deliver
Speaker:to that market through what you write.
Speaker:The education of what is happening in the marketing world right now That is changing
Speaker:every three to six months new things come up new Things that work things that stop
Speaker:working the way they did so you've got to keep yourself abreast of what's going
Speaker:on when it comes to marketing strategies.
Speaker:And that may feel overwhelming, right?
Speaker:Because you're like, I'm just trying to write my novel.
Speaker:But here's the thing.
Speaker:It doesn't have to be overwhelming.
Speaker:It's just part of what we call the writing world, right?
Speaker:We just talked in the last podcast, if you haven't listened
Speaker:to that, about the writing world.
Speaker:Attending writers conferences, listening to education online, all
Speaker:those kinds of things will just keep you aware of what's happening.
Speaker:Listening to podcasts like this, we try to share whenever we come
Speaker:up with something that is new, that's really good to keep aware of.
Speaker:We'll share that here.
Speaker:We share it in our writing moments.
Speaker:We have a weekly writing get together on Wednesdays at noon central, and you can
Speaker:find out about that at writingmomentum.
Speaker:com.
Speaker:And we have a training portion every week that we have together where we talk about.
Speaker:What are some of the latest things that you just need to know is going
Speaker:on right now with writing and Those strategies will take you from where
Speaker:you are to where you want to be.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:Well, we are so glad that you're here.
Speaker:We're so thankful that you showed up We do not take it for granted that you
Speaker:spent your time with us and we hope that this has inspired you, whether
Speaker:it's inspired you to continue looking at that formal education or whether it's
Speaker:inspired you to look at just taking it on yourself and just being self taught.
Speaker:That is completely appropriate and possible.
Speaker:We hope that you will take this as your personal just that Affirmative,
Speaker:that affirmation that you can do it.
Speaker:We believe in you.
Speaker:And so anyway, if you have enjoyed this podcast, we hope that you will do us a
Speaker:favor and just rate it, that you'll also maybe leave us a review, that you'll share
Speaker:it with a friend and definitely make sure to subscribe so that you get notifications
Speaker:for every podcast that we release.
Speaker:We really do try to release one a week.
Speaker:And we say that because Chris together.
Speaker:We have writing momentum.
Speaker:Bye bye.
